Join host Justin Forman with Mark Grunden and Josh Seabaugh for a pivotal conversation about the unprecedented opportunity emerging at the intersection of church and entrepreneurship. Recorded during Faith Driven Entrepreneur's staff retreat in Charleston, this episode unpacks groundbreaking Barna research revealing that society trusts entrepreneurs twice as much as pastors—and why this isn't a threat, but rather the church's greatest partnership opportunity. Mark brings unique insight from seven years at Saddleback Church pioneering marketplace ministry, while Josh shares lessons from a decade as a campus pastor before joining FDE full-time. Together, they reveal why starting with entrepreneurs—rather than broad "faith and work" initiatives—creates sustainable momentum that cascades throughout entire congregations and communities. Key Topics: Barna research reveals entrepreneurs are trusted 2X more than pastors (and 9X more than politicians) Why starting with "everyone who works" causes entrepreneurs to leave the room The difference between convening for community vs. convening for mission Breaking free from the "parking jacket and coffee" trap for high-capacity leaders Why churches need entrepreneurs more than entrepreneurs need the church How 250 churches are becoming hubs for faith-driven entrepreneurs in their cities The simple 8-week pathway any church can start this week (no cost, no catch) Notable Quotes: "Entrepreneurs are trusted two times more than pastors. I don't know if the influence of pastors is actually waning, but I think it's more that the impact of entrepreneurs are actually increasing because people are tired of talk in our society. They're looking for people of action." - Mark Grunden "If you get a pastor alone, he's intimidated by the entrepreneur. If you get an entrepreneur alone, he's intimidating by the pastor, which is why I'm excited that we can be the bridge." - Josh Seabaugh "If you start with everybody, you'll never get the entrepreneur. But if you start with the entrepreneur, everybody will follow." - Mark Grunden