Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles take us inside the mysterious world of Susie Wiles—the quiet, rarely seen chief of staff who may be the most powerful person in Donald Trump’s orbit. While Trump famously trusts no one and burns through aides at lightning speed, Wiles has not only survived but brought an unexpected level of discipline to the chaos of Trump World. Wolff reveals how the Florida political operative who Trump once dismissed as “a refrigerator” quietly outmaneuvered rivals, crushed Ron DeSantis, and built a White House operation designed around one simple rule: never try to control Donald Trump. From her unusual strategy of staying out of the spotlight to the psychological tactics she uses to handle a president who refuses bad news, the episode uncovers the secrets behind the grandmother who may be the most important—and least visible—figure in the Trump administration. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices