Concrete is full of contradictions. First it’s dust, then liquid, then hard as stone. It’s both rough and smooth, it’s modern and ancient, it can preserve history or play a hand in destroying it. Unsurprisingly, concrete is all about the gray area. Hear about this material from its supporters and detractors alike: why it’s so controversial, why it’s so often used in memorials, and how Colombian artist Doris Salcedo uses it to address grief and mourning. Guests: Nadine M. Orenstein, Drue Heinz Curator in Charge, Drawings and Prints, The Metropolitan Museum of Art Abraham Thomas, Daniel Brodsky Curator of Modern Architecture, Design, and Decorative Arts, Modern and Contemporary Art, The Metropolitan Museum of Art Adrian Forty, professor of architectural history, University College London, and author of Concrete and Culture (2012) Marco Leona, David H. Koch Scientist in Charge, Scientific Research, The Metropolitan Museum of Art Iria Candela, Estrellita B. Brodsky Curator of Latin American Art, Modern and Contemporary Art, The Metropolitan Museum of Art Featured object: Doris Salcedo (Colombian, b. Wood, concrete, and steel, 32 x 15 1/4 x 16 1/2 in. (81.3 x 38.7 x 41.9 cm). The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Purchase, Lila Acheson Wallace Gift and Latin American Art Initiative Gift, 2020 (2020.25) For a transcript of this episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterial #MetImmaterial Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camile Dungy. This episode was produced by Eleanor Kagan. Special thanks to Doris Salcedo, Laura Ubate, the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, the Museum of Contemporary Art in Chicago, Harvard Art Museums, and the Nasher Sculpture Center. Audio © President and Fellows of Harvard College. Recorded by Danny Hoshino on November 2, 2016, Harvard Art Museums See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.