Most creators think you need a massive audience to make real money. Phil Pallen is proof you don’t. He will finish 2025 close to 7-figures in revenue — while barely having 6-figures in followers across platforms. In this episode, Justin and Grace break down how Phil built a highly profitable creator-consultant business by positioning himself correctly, charging like a strategist, and letting his content do the inbound work for him. Inside: 💡 The 3 pillars of a personal brand that actually sells 📱 Why follower count ≠ revenue (Phil is the perfect example) 💸 How he prices strategy, consulting, and brand builds 🔄 Rebranding yourself after a pivot (and why most people do it wrong) 📈 How Phil structures his business to stay creative and profitable Timestamps: 00:00 – Phil Pallen’s business model 06:12 – Why most personal brands fail 12:45 – The 3 pillars of a high-trust personal brand 20:10 – Follower count vs. credibility (Phil’s anti-vanity approach) 26:30 – Creating content that attracts inbound leads 34:15 – Pricing yourself as a strategist, not a freelancer 41:20 – How to rebrand after a pivot 47:50 – Building an agency that scales your creative work 53:10 – Final takeaways 🎙️ Hosted by Grace Ling & Justin Nguyen 📍 How Creators Make Money — the podcast where we unpack the real strategies behind today’s smartest creators.