How can ancient spiritual practices be reanimated for modern life? In this compelling episode, John sits down again with therapist Seth Allison to delve deep into the themes of suffering, trust, and growth within the frame of internal family systems therapy and Jungian analysis. Seth discusses his transformative experiences over the past few years, including the impact of previous conversations with John and his own journey through a profound period of liminality. They touch upon voluntary necessity, the role of suffering in cultivating faith, and the transformative power of relationships and community in overcoming personal crises. Seth also highlights the significance of humility in effective leadership and his aspirations for fostering supportive, growth-oriented environments in both personal and professional settings. Seth Allison is a psychotherapist and depth-oriented thinker whose work integrates attachment theory, Internal Family Systems, and Jungian psychology with spiritual and existential inquiry. Drawing from both clinical training and lived experience, he specializes in helping individuals navigate midlife transitions, relational struggles, addiction dynamics, and identity shifts. Seth's approach emphasizes authenticity, relational depth, and the courageous engagement of suffering as a doorway to growth and deeper participation in life. Seth Allison: LinkedIn The Cost of Discipleship Murray Stein The Serenity Prayer 00:00 — Welcome to the Lectern 05:00 — Voluntary necessity and spiritual depth 08:00 — Bonhoeffer's profound insights 11:00 — Personal reflections and resonance realization 25:30 — Exploring liminality and midlife transitions 29:54 — You can't serve money and God, and money doesn't just mean money, it means ego, success and accomplishment. 52:00 — Hermes and the concept of love addiction 52:30 — The arena of partnership and self-discovery 54:00 — Addiction and attachment strategies 56:30 — Faith and recovery: a new perspective 58:30 — The role of symbols and sensory experience 59:30 — Transcendence and metanoia 01:07:30 — The importance of community in recovery 01:18:30 — Navigating betrayal and suffering 01:35:00 — Leadership and humility 01:44:00 — The subversive power of trust --- Want to go deeper? Join the Lectern platform on Teachable for full-length courses, guided series, and structured pathways into the ideas explored here. John Vervaeke: Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ Twitter: https://x.com/DrJohnVervaeke YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke/videos Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Thank you for Listening!