#367 “Gods and Genes”: A Podcast Exploring Science & Spirituality

Science and religion don’t have to be in conflict. Our host Kira Dineen interviews Amber about the conversations that emerge when genomics meets spirituality, from how clinicians respectfully engage with patients’ beliefs to how our own worldviews shape care at the bedside. Amber shares her personal background growing up in a religiously mixed home (Christian/atheist), her journey through deconstruction and back to a post-deconstruction Christian identity, and why that lived experience drew her to study religion and spirituality in genetic counseling for her graduate capstone at Keck Graduate Institute (KGI). With training in genetic counseling and a background shaped by a religiously mixed upbringing, Amber brings a unique perspective on how to navigate questions of faith in medical settings. Episode Topics Discussed: Why this show, why now: The vision for Gods and Genes and the gap it fills in clinical education and patient care. Science + spirituality as complements: Curiosity, mystery, and how questions in science and faith can productively coexist. Amber’s path: Growing up with Christian and atheist parents, deconstruction, and how that shapes her clinical stance today. Inside the capstone study: What genetic counselors report hearing from patients about faith/spirituality, and how prepared they feel. Key finding: Providers’ perceived helpfulness in faith-related conversations did not differ by their own religiosity, spirituality, affiliation, or years of experience, suggesting this is a trainable skill. Practical language clinicians can use: Validating statements (“It sounds like your faith is important in this decision…”) Reflective summaries to check understanding Thoughtful reframing that integrates beliefs with medical options (and knowing when to refer to chaplaincy) When beliefs and recommendations diverge: Staying non-directive, exploring assumptions, and correcting myths (e.g., privacy/HIPAA concerns). Partners in care: Why clergy (e.g., rabbis in Orthodox communities) are often medical advocates, not adversaries, and how to collaborate. Common misconceptions, both ways: Among clinicians about “what clergy do” and whether to invite them in Among faith communities about what genetic counselors do beyond prenatal care Invitations to the community: Amber seeks conversations with religious scholars, non-religion/unbelief researchers, chaplains, clinicians, and patients willing to share how belief (or non-belief) shaped their care. Correction: Around 12 minutes and 30 seconds into the episode (varies depending if you are consuming the audio or video version), Amber shares that in every session religion/spirituality comes up, she meant to say every rotation she went through, not with every patient. Key Takeaways: Patients raise spiritual or religious concerns more often than many trainees expect; be ready, not reactive. You don’t need to be religious to be helpful; skills can be learned (validation, reflection, collaboration). Not every visit needs a spiritual history, follow the patient’s lead. Chaplains, rabbis, clergy etc. Emunas Chachamim (faith in the sages): A prenatal genetic counseling needs assessment of Orthodox Jewish clergy in Los Angeles. J Genet Couns. 2024 Oct;33(5):1045-1058. doi: 10.1002/jgc4.1816. Epub 2023 Oct 25. PMID: 37877233. Thompson AB, Cragun D, Sumerau JE, Cragun RT, De Gifis V, Trepanier A. " Be Prepared if I Bring It Up:" Patients' Perceptions of the Utility of Religious and Spiritual Discussion During Genetic Counseling. J Genet Couns. 2016 Oct;25(5):945-56. doi: 10.1007/s10897-015-9922-9. Epub 2016 Jan 13. PMID: 26758255. Relevant DNA Today Podcast Episode: #306 NIH’s Dr. Francis Collins’ Leadership in the Human Genome Project and COVID-19 Gene Pool Media: The Science Podcast Network Gods and Genes is the newest show on science podcast network, Gene Pool Media. Thanks to everyone who has supported the network by following us @GenePoolMedia on social. Shoutout to all the podcasts in our network, you should check them via the links below! Or just email us directly at info@genepoolmedia.com. We’d love to chat with you about the benefits of joining the network. Here and there we have been sharing episodes from other podcasts in the Gene Pool Media network right here on DNA Today. Connect With Us: Would you like to be a guest on Gods and Genes? Email your pitch to Amber at contact@godsandgenes.com or godsandgenes@gmail.com. Get ready, genetic nerds, another brand-new episode of DNA Today drops this Friday! You can always count on us to deliver fresh content every Friday. While you wait, why not dive into our library of over 365 episodes? We’ve got you covered! For the past four years, we’ve been recording episodes with video, including some filmed at the iconic NBC Universal Stamford Studios. DNA Today is hosted and produced by Kira Dineen, MS, LCGC, CG(ASCP)CM. Our Video Lead is Amanda Andreoli. Our Social Media Lead Liv Davidson. And our logo Graphic Designer is Ashlyn Enokian, MS, CGC. The Graphic Designer of the new Gods and Genes logo is Safiah Peeran.