How has the second Trump presidency differed from the first? How did Trump’s experiences during his time out of office and on the campaign trail in 2024—including his trial in New York and the assassination attempts—shape him? What can we expect in the months and years ahead? In this Conversation, Jonathan Karl, a leading chronicler of Donald Trump and author of Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign that Shaped America, argues for the centrality of retribution in understanding Donald Trump’s second presidency. Drawing on his extraordinary access to the president over many years, Karl reflects on how we got here and considers where we might be going.